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Comments on Academic Achievement student learning outcome:
#Response DateResponse Text
1Nov 9, 2010 9:35 PMIts extremely vague.
2Nov 9, 2010 9:35 PMI don't like the word 'career' in this objective. It implies that all college students are ONLY going to college to get a career rather than for higher learning to occur. Perhaps I am not the majority in this belief, but I think there should be more to a university than simply preparing students for a career. I understand that there are other objectives to accomplish that goal, but I guess the focus on 'career' was what bothered me.
3Nov 9, 2010 9:39 PMI feel like most classes are curriculum-oriented and taught well. Some are not, but can be changed. At times, I don't feel that it's my fault for understanding course material because of certain disciplines of studies are too challenging, also required and uninteresting to myself.
4Nov 9, 2010 9:40 PMthat is an outcome worded to vaguely to evaluate precisely.
5Nov 9, 2010 9:46 PMno comment
6Nov 9, 2010 9:49 PMIn many cases students are left to navigate career paths on their own in their disciplines. Some departments are big on guiding their students from early on but others just kind of leave their students in teh dark about various applications of their discipline
7Nov 9, 2010 9:50 PMThis achievement is fine, but I do worry that if these are the 7 criteria on which our university will be judged, then the implication is that all academics must directly apply to career. College education, even the purely academic part, is about more than that.
8Nov 9, 2010 9:50 PMNot all majors lead directly to a specific career, nor should they.
9Nov 9, 2010 9:50 PMNot in the IT 360, IT 320, IT 460, and IT 462 classes taught by Dr. Mahbubur Syed; his tenure should be revoked and he should be fired.
10Nov 9, 2010 9:52 PMn/a
11Nov 9, 2010 9:52 PMThis competence should also include speaking/understanding/reading the English language.
12Nov 9, 2010 9:53 PMQuestion the "directly impact their careeer endeavors." Alternative "that will lead to their ability to be productive members of society." Career endeavors seems narrowly focused on earning money and not learning for the sake of learning, you never know what career students will follow when they graduate.
13Nov 9, 2010 9:53 PM'directly impact their career endeavors' is a broad area. there are some classes that do not seem to have much correlation with my career that are required.
14Nov 9, 2010 9:54 PMI believe this is directed toward Gen Ed class requirements... As much as I think these requirements are a pain at times, and I think it is a necessity to have them. They develop and broaden ideas and concepts in other fields that people aren't always open to.
15Nov 9, 2010 9:58 PMI am speaking from experience. Non-traditional students must have an extended time frame for financial and academic probation. Returning to school after many years away is a 9 to 12 month adjustment. The first and second semester should not be considered for either probationary status
16Nov 9, 2010 10:00 PMnone
17Nov 9, 2010 10:01 PMIt's important for students to be well rounded and to understand how many academic disciplines affect their specific career endeavors.
18Nov 9, 2010 10:03 PMIt is good and is a great fit to the university.
19Nov 9, 2010 10:07 PMIt's a good thought in theory, but in practice...not so much. Many kids come to college looking for that golden ticket of a diploma which will grant them any 100k job they wish. They don't do anything constructive and beneficial to their career or discipline outside of class (and in class they don't even pay attention).
20Nov 9, 2010 10:14 PMThere are programs of study that have a more varied practical use. I have a BS in Mathematics and have found it very difficult to prove to future employers that there are non-computational skills that make me qualified to do things outside the scope of what many consider mathematics. These skills are also difficult to quantify and there for I would believe just as difficult to test. I would need more clarification on this statement to make a full decision to it's practical application.
21Nov 9, 2010 10:15 PMI believe Minnesota State Mankato provides a very good opportunity for students to excel academically in almost any area of study as Minnesota State provides a wide range of majors and a handful of talented teachers and staff.
22Nov 9, 2010 10:19 PMHow will this be assessed? Program review and accreditation? Annual assessment?
23Nov 9, 2010 10:23 PMI think this is only a true statement for some majors. Nursing, Engineering, and other sciences yes. Business and Art, no.
24Nov 9, 2010 10:24 PMThis is the primary reason why Minnesota State Mankato exists! This assessment has to happen at the course/program level. It cannot be a university-wide or college-wide metric.
25Nov 9, 2010 10:34 PMThe ways in which students are required to demonstrate competence need to be directly related to their career fields, and not simply a way of proving they have passed the classes, or merely "busy work" to make the university look good.
26Nov 9, 2010 10:42 PMIs this so vague as to be meaningless? While this makes great sense in professional programs and some sense in applied programs, won't it need much more clarification for the career impacts of liberal arts programs?
27Nov 9, 2010 10:45 PM*career endeavors perhaps should be changed to something more broad than just career
28Nov 9, 2010 10:51 PMHow will competence be behaviorally described so that it can be assessed?
29Nov 9, 2010 10:51 PMThis is one of the essentials. Isn't this why our students are here?
30Nov 9, 2010 11:11 PMI'm guessing this outcome is consistent with many of the accreditation documents of the specific disciplines.
31Nov 9, 2010 11:16 PMI question the emphasis of competence directly impacting career endeavors. Quite a lot of what is learned in a university education does not, in any obvious way, directly bear on a wide range of professional activities, but this does not in any way diminish its value. Framing the academic achievement outcome in this way only perpetuates the notion that we are above all else preparing students for careers. This is a mistake.
32Nov 9, 2010 11:26 PMlast 7 words unnecessary
33Nov 9, 2010 11:33 PMI believe that academic achievement is my number one priority.
34Nov 9, 2010 11:35 PMWhat does a career objective have to do with learning. So I say I want to be a dishwasher, so we rate how I wash dishes? How about being up front and honest and just say MAJOR. That's a good academic term and something every student has.
35Nov 9, 2010 11:42 PMthis is so vague it's applicable to any 4 year post-secondary school in America.
36Nov 9, 2010 11:48 PMI think it is good that we are discussing this.
37Nov 9, 2010 11:53 PMI think that I should be competent in everything I do regardless if it is directly or indirectly related to my self-set goals.
38Nov 9, 2010 11:56 PMYes i have learned a lot so far this semester the only class im not happy with is History 190 with Andrews she is a terrible teacher
39Nov 10, 2010 12:09 AMif the professors teaching the course actually care if their students succeed.
40Nov 10, 2010 1:19 AMIn my opinion the student brings a certain level of academic achievement into the Service Learning site which is shared with those around them regardless of the site and or type of duties performed. On top of what a student brings to the site they come should be coming away having gain an more in depth perspective of the world around them as well as the role we can play in making changes, even if they seem like nothing.
41Nov 10, 2010 1:22 AMI resent the narrowing of academic achievement as related only to "direct impact on students' career endeavors." It is our mission to provide both career-related/ profession AND foundational/Liberal Arts and Sciences education. The limitation of academic achievement to professional purposes may be appropriate for a community college but not for a university that fancies itself a "doctoral institution".
42Nov 10, 2010 1:42 AMIs this outcome necessary? Will you collect assessments from the various programs and use that as the measure with variance embraced?
43Nov 10, 2010 2:18 AMI am somewhat concerned about the use of the term "specific". Without including a broader focus, we are in danger of becoming a technical/vocational school. If all we want to do is focus on specific areas that directly impact careers, why should we be a four-year school. It does not take four years to master accounting skills, for example. A broader education, one which prepares one for multiple career changes in their lives, would be a preferable goal in my opinion.
44Nov 10, 2010 2:33 AMI would like to state first off, that while it may seem that I am deliberately being harshly critical, that is not the case. My intent is to be as objective as possible. I am a Junior IT student at MSU Mankato, and I trust that my identity will remain anonymous. Basically, in my opinion, the entire process at MSU is a joke. The some of the professors are literally incompetent to the point where it is utterly counter-productive to attend class. Dr. Mahbubur Syed is the worst teacher I've ever come across, to name one. That said, most professors just don't give a damn whether you've learned anything or not; in most cases, not. Typically, I will cram all the information just before a test, then purge it immediately after. Why would I purge this information? Well, this could be the most important point that I make: THE THINGS BEING TAUGHT ARE UTTERLY USELESS!! This speaks for most classes that I've attended, but most specifically the IT350 and 360 classes; the information is useless and outdated. On top of that, I've found some professors to actually be disrespectful and demeaning to the students. OBSERVE THE PROFESSORS!! Watch what they teach and how they're teaching. If a professor isn't doing a good job teaching/interacting with students, then FIRE HIM/HER!!
45Nov 10, 2010 2:49 AMYes, although some faculty might think that graduate school is not a career endeavor.
46Nov 10, 2010 2:55 AMProgram is evidence-based
47Nov 10, 2010 3:43 AMSeems pretty vague but maybe that is the purpose.
48Nov 10, 2010 4:09 AMWho determines the competencies? What happens if students do not meet the competencies as set forth? I think there are a lot of questions that have to be answered before assessment can be done in any meaningful kind of way.
49Nov 10, 2010 6:39 AMDepending on the Professor too can highly effect students educational goals and grades.
50Nov 10, 2010 10:49 AMI like it
51Nov 10, 2010 12:25 PMThe outcome is applicable, but the outcome as articulated is predominantly unmeasurable. The notion of "directly impacting their careers" is undefined: do students show achievement by being hired? What if they take a job in a field outside of their major area of study...have they demonstrated competence? Are we then using grades as indicators? What grade shows competence? To what degree? How is that demonstrable? Do we use graduation as a measure? Is time to degree a measure of competence? I believe that "demonstrate competence" is becoming a buzzword, but in this case, without much meaning.
52Nov 10, 2010 12:29 PMLike.
53Nov 10, 2010 2:05 PMn/a
54Nov 10, 2010 2:20 PMAbsolutely, as a Grad Student in the Human Services Adminstration program working full-time in the field the competency gained is incredible and highly applicable. Having my undergrad from MSU as well in Corrections-I feel MSU did a great job giving me the building blocks and resources to draw from for success in the field.
55Nov 10, 2010 3:11 PMI realize the need to express student learning outcomes in broad and encompassing terminology, but perhaps reference should be made to established accreditation standards. Having made this suggestion, I am well aware not all programs have accreditation standards, but many do.
56Nov 10, 2010 4:04 PMComprehensive.
57Nov 10, 2010 4:44 PMYes, Students are able to learn about their specific majors/minors.
58Nov 10, 2010 4:58 PMThe question for me is how competence will be measured. I suspect there will be a range of options: papers, presentations etc. If only standardized tests are used for assessment, it could provide limited info.
59Nov 10, 2010 5:11 PMI feel that this is true for any learning institution
60Nov 10, 2010 5:21 PMVery applicable to the mission of a state institution.
61Nov 10, 2010 5:21 PMyou can get it if you want it
62Nov 10, 2010 6:52 PMEnsuring that what is taught in class directly applies to the students career allows for more confidence in the student and an easier transition to the work force after college.
63Nov 10, 2010 7:24 PMThat question could have been made easier to understand by capitalizing "Student Learning Outcome." Or, simply by saying, "Does the statement to the left correctly describe your experience with MSU?" Does anyone proof-read these things?
64Nov 10, 2010 7:25 PMVery universalistic, extends across all majors and fields of study.
65Nov 10, 2010 9:37 PMAcademic achievement is often overlooked by students, especially in their first semester or two, it seems. Academic Achievement is a huge deal to me and I always love learning things that will effect my career!
66Nov 10, 2010 10:45 PMI really like the Learning Community. I believe that it is a good adjustment from a small school to college. I also really like how the professors work with you and you know some people to ask questions to about the homework.
67Nov 11, 2010 2:01 AMN/A
68Nov 11, 2010 3:08 PMAddresses specific area - general and able to be used by all disciplines
69Nov 11, 2010 7:17 PMWhat is meant by "specific areas"? Why get into a "direct impact on career endeavors".
70Nov 11, 2010 7:18 PMWhile I think this outcome makes sense, I suspect that it might generate some controversy in some quarters because of the phrase "...directly impact their career endeavors." In response to any such concerns that might arise, I would argue that the phrase can be broadly interpreted so as not to imply a trade-school mentality.
71Nov 11, 2010 10:58 PMWho will determine how they demonstrate their competence? University policy, departments or individual professors?
72Nov 12, 2010 5:45 AMDemonstrating competence in an academic discipline by taking a test and passing a course is one thing. Saying "Students will demonstrate competence in specific areas of academic disciplines that will directly impact their career endeavors" is complete bullshit! Look closely at some of the majors and minors offered at MNSU. Then look at some of the classes offered as required and elective. I think "special interests" have diluted the BA/BS degree so much that students are now taking four years of easy classes and still graduating with a "degree". Now, it seems that HR Departments are only concerned with degree attainment instead of focusing on degree and major focus area.
73Nov 12, 2010 2:25 PMHow I'll student academic achievement be assessed and evaluated? Will their competence be soley demonstrated by written examination marks?
74Nov 12, 2010 5:08 PMnone.
75Nov 12, 2010 6:09 PMno comments
76Nov 15, 2010 4:05 PMIs it implied that "demonstrated outcomes" are part of the degree requirements? And what happens if the student(s) cannot demonstrate such competence? Theoretically, they have not demonstrated that they have accomplished the requirements for the degree. Is their failure to demonstrate competence the students responsibility? The administration's responsibility for admitting an unprepared student? What about those disciplines that are not career specific? This "academic achievement" is appropriate for a tech school not a university.
77Nov 16, 2010 4:11 AMThis outcome seems most relevant to "professional" programs.
78Nov 19, 2010 2:27 PMI'm learning a lot.