This is a threaded discussion page for the International Stuttering Awareness Day Online Conference paper, Speaking Is My Challenge -- And I'm Facing Up To It, by Marty Jezer. Stuttering is my challenge - M.Jezer From: an S.L.Pathologist in CT Date: 10/14/98 Time: 5:37:37 PM Remote Name: 134.29.30.79 Comments A wonderful article that I hope to share with an adolescent that I work with. Keep up the tremendous attitude. I hope that the electronic gizmos will be less of a dependency for you in the future. Stretch those vowels! slow down your rate! Keep up your inspirational attitude, M.J. You're terrific! Re: Stuttering is my challenge - M.Jezer From: Marty Jezer Date: 10/14/98 Time: 5:38:13 PM Remote Name: 134.29.30.79 Comments Thanks, S.L. I cannot tell you (but perhaps I will) how wonderful it is to know that my writing might have a positive influence on some young person. My generation of stutterers were isolated in shame. We didn't want anyone to know we stuttered -- or as in my case (because my stuttering was obvious) -- that we were hurt by it. I knew a couple of kids in my various schools who also stuttered. Not only did we not talk about it to one another, we shunned one another -- each of us hiding in our shame. Knowing others who stutter, being able to talk about it openly is such an advantage. May I suggest contacting FRIENDS, The Association of Young People Who Stutter. Lee Caggiano, one of the organizers, is in Long Island, perhaps not far from you in CT. She has a thread on the ISAD on line discussion. Or reach her at lcaggiano@aol.com. And yes, slow speech and stretchd vowels do work -- they are useful even with the electronic gizmos. Best wishes, Marty Jezer Keep Going. From: Someone who wants to encourage you. Date: 9/16/99 Time: 8:21:46 PM Remote Name: 209.142.5.96 Comments Hello. My name is Nathan. I was doing a web search of some free gizmos I could get for my computer when your web address popped up. I saw it and was surprised. I was curious so I clicked on it. I'm really glad to hear that there is an organization to help those who stutter. I encourage you in your task of helping others. I know a few people who have that problem and I can only imagine how difficult that must be to deal with. Please! keep up the good work. thanks. use of fluency devices From: chuck goldman chuckig@aol.com Date: 10/14/98 Time: 5:38:52 PM Remote Name: 134.29.30.79 Comments I've read your book on stuttering and even used it in my course this past summer as required reading for graduate students. Having never heard you speak or struggle to do so I'm glad to hear that the Daf technology is so helpful. Do you believe it is helpful specifically because because more fluent patterns in your speech were not neurologically rewired at an earlier age? Also, if a stutterer identifies so much with his stuttering that it becomes his personality, can changing nomenclature to PWS in and of itself be truly helpful? Was it helpful in your case? Re: use of fluency devices From: Marty Jezer Date: 10/14/98 Time: 5:39:24 PM Remote Name: 134.29.30.79 Comments Hi Chuck, I hope your grad students find my book useful -- and that you'll keep assigning it! There's lots of research on why DAF works with stuttering, but I don't have it offhand. My own subjective impression is that it not only helps slow my speech down, which enhances fluency, but it has a calming affect on my brain. These two factors create an upward spiral: slow speech, more calm, leads to more fluency, more confidence, greater calmness, still more fluency -- and up we go. As for being a "stutterer" or a "PWS," the important thing is not the use of the terms but how we internalize our understanding. It's important for kids to learn and really understand in their gut that their identity is not based on their speech; that their stuttering is just a small part of the person they are in the world. Using the term "person who stutters," to my mind, is a very useful conceptual tool in helping them to understand this. Once they understand that they are not "A STUTTERER" with an imaginary letter "S" hung around their neck, it doesn't matter what term they actually use. As I think I wrote in my book, I find "people who stutter" awkward and wordy. And I hate using an abbrviation to descrbe a person. I often, in speech, use the word "stutterer." But I know that that is not who I am. Best wishes, Marty Jezer Re: use of fluency devices From: Ira Zimmerman Date: 10/14/98 Time: 5:39:54 PM Remote Name: 134.29.30.79 Comments I'm glad to hear that a fluency device helps you. I'm for anything that helps a PWS is ok with me. Did you know that actor Eric Roberts uses a fluency device when he has to be interviewed? I don't know which fluency device he uses. Re: use of fluency devices From: Marty Jezer Date: 10/14/98 Time: 5:40:31 PM Remote Name: 134.29.30.79 Comments Ira: Your attitude is right on. And the professional community seems to be coming around to our view. I knew about the Edinburgh Masker long before I got one. Speech pathologists mocked it as a "crutch." (What happens when the batteries run out?" one said). People with hearing disabilities get hearing aids. People who have difficulty walking get canes, crutches, and wheelchairs. Why then can't we get technological assistance for our speech? I know a number of people who use the Masker or David Kehoe's delayed auditory feedback units for job interviews, speaking presentations at jobs and in school, in situations where fluency is important. I use the portable DAF unit for Toastmasters. This summer I was a speaker at a two-day conference on the counter-culture in Vermont. It included a number of academics and I was quoted in the NY Times. I also used the DAF for my keynote speech at the Speakeasy symposium. People who stutter can be effective communicators -- even with some disfluency. The DAF, like the Masker, gives me a boost up. I'm still not 100% fluency, but I get my ideas across. (I may have said all this in my original article; if so I apologize for repeating myself, but it's a point that I do want to stress. Amazing as it may seem, stutterers can be good public speakers. Best wishes, Marty Jezer PS: Ira: It would be interesting to know what Eric Roberts uses. There are a number of actors who are totally fluent on stage (or in character) but stutter when they are being "themselves." Re: use of fluency devices From: Les Anderson Date: 10/16/98 Time: 12:39:25 PM Remote Name: 209.167.123.229 Comments It may be of interest to stutterers that many fluent speaking people use fluency devices all the time for certain job functions. Many narrators of TV documentaries use auditory feed back devices to slow themselves down, to speak with ultra clarity and at a predetermined auditory pitch. I have been doing considerable studies into this self-destroying drive that too many stutterers have in their striving for ultra fluency. We tend to idolize those on newscasts, documentaries, and many actors for their voice or speaking abilities or manner. It is amazing how many of these famous people use fluency enhancing devices and other electronic voice enhancers to make themselves sound as they do. Marty is by no means alone in using fluency enhancing devices. Les Anderson Re: use of fluency devices From: Marty Jezer Date: 10/17/98 Time: 9:43:45 AM Remote Name: 207.136.199.251 Comments Les: Would you tell us something about your research into fluency devices? My sense is that mild stutterers don't use them because the discomfort far outweighs the gain. It's the very severe stutterers who find them helpful, and the goal for them is not perfect speech but a fair shot at effective communication. Also, would you tell us more about the professional communicators (newsmen, etc.) who use them. I've never heard of this and it is fascinating. What devices are they using? Do they have access to devices that we who stutter know nothing about? Best, Marty Jezer Re: use of fluency devices From: Les Anderson Date: 10/17/98 Time: 3:20:24 PM Remote Name: 209.167.123.228 Comments Marty My research was not in the use of fluency devices, it was, or is, in the area of stutterers who set themselves up for falls by trying to achieve ultra fluency through emulation. Usually, these stutterers connect with or try to emulate the voices of public speakers who they hear on radios, TV or other broadcast mediums. Since I started this research last year I have found out that many auditory enhancing devices, mostly electronic sound mixing and electronic auditory editing, are widely used in the broadcast and music recording industry. This is most evident in the retaping of old sound tracks from past recorded records, radio and TV shows. I am by no means implying that all personalities have their voices enhanced or edited. People such as Orson Wells, William Conrad and others with this natural voice pitch have beautifully clear and easy to listen to voices. I think you might contact a university that has a curriculum in broadcast journalism or something similar in the broadcast industry for more detailed information on this. I, as you, was not aware that so many of our public figures so commonly used electronic devices to enhance the sound of their voices. I suppose it stands to reason, being communication is the world's most powerful marketing tool, that the human voice plays the major role in it. Les Anderson Re: use of fluency devices From: Les Anderson Date: 10/17/98 Time: 4:32:34 PM Remote Name: 209.167.123.230 Comments I forgot to mention in my last post that these public figures do not use the little auditory aid machines that many stutterers make use of. Most of the equipment that is used by the professional speakers are the $100,000 to $500,000 mixing and equalizer boards that are found in most large studio's sound or recording system. I suppose we could say that these machines are not accessable to the general population: unless you wanted to attend one of these studios and record your own voice. Re: use of fluency devices From: Charlie Diggs Date: 10/16/98 Time: 12:49:56 PM Remote Name: 207.86.138.200 Comments Chuck Goldman's question and your response on the use of person who stutters rather than stutterer is an area I have strong feelings about. Though many people may believe that the distinction is inconsequential, I do believe that the use of the language influences the thinking of who a person is or what another thinks about that person. Western culture is full of examples of the power of naming. A few examples... In the Bible, after God created Adam, the next thing that was done was to bring in every beast of the field so that Adam could give them NAMES. Hebrew tradition is strong that you do not know someone unless you know hirs or her NAME. "By their names, you shall know them." As minority groups seek to gain greater control over their lives, what they want to be called (i.e., their NAMES) is often one of the first battlegrounds. Think of the progression from colored to Negro, black, African-American, etc. or women vs. girls. I am also reminded of Louise Haye and positive affirmations. A mantra is said over and over again, e.g., I am a worthwhile person, even though, at first, a person may not believe the content of the mantra. What happens is that, over time, the repetion of the mantra changes the person's perception of himself or herself so that the mantra creates its own fulfillment in reality. The language has influenced the thinking. I agree with you, Marty, that once the self-perception is changed how a person wants to refer to himself or herself becomes moot. In the meantime, I believe that it is hard (though not impossible) for a "person who stutters" who refers to himself or herself as a "stutterer" to develop a full dimensional concept of personhood beyond the stuttering. Thanks to you and Chuck for giving me the opportunity to comment. Charlie Diggs Re: use of fluency devices From: Marty Jezer Date: 10/17/98 Time: 9:52:57 AM Remote Name: 207.136.199.251 Comments Hi Charlie: An important point. Names do count. Sticks and stone break bones; names affect our self-image and identity. And broken bones heal easier than damaged self-images. And the use of esteem-building mantras can be helpful. One of the good things about Martin Schwartz's airflow therapy is (or was -- I took it in 1980) his bathtub technique. You sit in a hot bath staring at a candle in a darkened bathroom and chant affirmations. It's not his idea and I'm not endorsing his (or any specific) therapy, but I appreciate his willingness to include this in his therapy. Best wishes, Marty Jezer Stuttering is not my Identity From: Molly Tami Date: 10/14/98 Time: 5:41:17 PM Remote Name: 134.29.30.79 Comments You article, like your book, was most inspiring and your courage is so admirable! The main point that struck me was your statement that you came to realize that stuttering is not the primary attribute of your identity. My son who is 8 stutters, and I have worked hard to accept and realize that stuttering is not what defines him. He is a very intelligent, talented and gifted child, but I felt for a long time that his stuttering overlaid all of this. I have worked very hard to get past that and feel that I have. He has had alot of therapy and now is enjoying much fluency. (We attended a month long intensive course at ISTAR this past August.) I have also come to accept that while he does experience much fluency, it is something he will have to work on for much of his life, if not all of it. Your work in that regard is most encouraging. When I read about your other books and other important work re: public financing, I was equally fascinated, and plan to look further at your work. Keep up your great advocacy and support for people who stutter and for their families. Sincerely, Molly Tami Re: Stuttering is not my Identity From: Marty Jezer Date: 10/14/98 Time: 5:41:52 PM Remote Name: 134.29.30.79 Comments Thanks, Molly. All I would add is to emphasize what you already know that kids like your son ought to be really encouraged to do and excell at the things they enjoy. The self-esteem they get from doing things well really gives them a solid base for when they get down on themselves for their speech. There is a strong carry-over. As for public financing, check out the website for Public Campaign: http://www.publicampaign.org Best wishes, Marty Jezer Alexander Technique and Stuttering From: Molly Tami Date: 10/20/98 Time: 8:04:57 AM Remote Name: 152.163.194.177 Comments I am curious whether you are familiar with the Alexander Technique and its possible use with people who stutter. I don't recall you mentioning it in your book, but it sounds like something you may have explored at one time. Thanks! Re: Alexander Technique and Stuttering From: Marty Jezer Date: 10/20/98 Time: 8:24:33 AM Remote Name: 207.136.199.1 Comments Hi Molly, Yes I am familiar with the Alexander Technique. I know a couple of therapists who specialize in it and they have talked to me about it. My feeling is that anything that helps people (not just people who stutter) manage stress and become self-aware and centered is helpful in everyday life. I also feel that proponents or teachers of the various alternative techniques are sometimes too zealous in their advocacy and over-sell what they have to offer. Be that as it may, many of the alternative therapies are good. I wish I had the self-discipline to meditate. When I've done it, it's felt good (though I doubt if helped my flency in any decisive way) -- as have isolation (sensory deprivaton) tanks and Dr. Schwartz's bathtup technique. Alas, the way I choose to live my life leaves me little time for these kinds of exercises. Not that I'm all work and no play. To relax, I listen to jazz. It doesn't deal effectively with stress, but it does put me into a spiritual realm. Best wishes, Marty Jezer Speaking is my challenge -- From: Kristi Bongaarts Date: 10/20/98 Time: 12:00:28 PM Remote Name: 206.10.222.207 Comments What a wonderful paper! I really appreciate your sharing of your feelings and how you are dealing with your stuttering! I think it is very important that young people who stutter come to realize that stuttering is not who they are. You did a wonderful job explaining the difference. I plan to share your paper with some of my students to help them change the way they think about themselves. Thank you! Re: Speaking is my challenge -- From: Marty Jezer Date: 10/20/98 Time: 4:40:18 PM Remote Name: 207.136.199.40 Comments Thanks Kristi, When I was growing up, there were no adult role models to offer guidance about life's possibilities -- even with a stutter. That's why all these internet communications are so important. Young people can see that they are not alone and that there are people and -- more importantly -- groups, like the National Stutering Project (NSP), the Canadian Association of People Who Stutter (CAPS), the two Speak Easy Groups (one in New Jersey, the other in Canada, the National Council on Stuttering in Chicago, FRIENDS, and many more the world over, that offer advice, support, and friendship to people who stutter. It's so important that SLPs know of these groups and help direct their clients to them. My book, Stuttering: A Life Bound Up in Words (available from bookstores or the NSP) is a testament to the power of self-help/ Best wishes, Marty Jezer Speaking is a challenge... From: K. Affeldlt-Bacon Date: 10/20/98 Time: 7:33:52 PM Remote Name: 208.156.162.72 Comments I have shared your paper with a high school age student that I am working with. He was frequently skipping his sessions with me until I left homework for him with his homeroom teacher. He is now coming to his therapy sessions and says that he is ready to learn more about his stuttering. I think your article touched a spot in him that I was unable to touch. Thank you!! Re: Speaking is a challenge... From: Marty Jezer Date: 10/21/98 Time: 8:53:17 AM Remote Name: 207.136.199.68 Comments Thanks K. for sharing that. What motivates people to deal with the stuttering is still a mystery. As is the question of why some people, even with severe stuttering problems, are so successful in denying they have a problem. Louise Heite has a good essay dealing with denial. I devoted an entire chapter to it in my book. I guess it's hard to predict what will inspire people to face up to their problems -- and we should therefore never give up on anyone but keep trying and trying. Best wishes, Marty Jezer Re: Speaking is a challenge... From: Les Anderson Date: 10/21/98 Time: 12:09:07 PM Remote Name: 209.167.123.229 Comments Marty, Your comment about stutterers denying they have a problem maybe open for some disagreement. Many stutterers, or any other handicapped person for that matter, do not feel that their handicap is a problem. I have met many stutterers who have accepted are quite contented with their dysfluency and are willing to live with it. It is these people who I tend to envy. These people are usually more willing to accept the world around them than those who are very sensitive about how others perceive them or their handicap. Re: Speaking is a challenge... From: Marty Jezer Date: 10/22/98 Time: 10:06:09 AM Remote Name: 207.136.199.197 Comments Les, I absolutely agree with that and like to think of myself in that category. But to accept oneself as a stutterer implies a degree of work and honesty. One first has to acknowledge that he or she has a problem and then has to figure out a way of coping with it successfully. What I meant by "denial" regards people (e.g., myself as a youth) who refuses to acknowledge and so objectively deal with my stuttering. Wishing it would go away or not owning up to it is not self-acceptance. It's putting blinders on and, in many cases, worsening the disability. So I would say that overcoming denial is a step towards self-acceptance and a step towards living successfully with one's disfluency and getting on with life. Best wishes, Marty Jezer Re: Speaking is a challenge... From: Les Anderson Date: 10/22/98 Time: 6:41:37 PM Remote Name: 209.167.123.229 Comments I have enjoyed your comments and enjoyed meeting you at the CAPS conference in Vancouver last August. Keep up the good work. Les Hope to see you in Montreal or Seattle From: Marty Jezer Date: 10/22/98 Time: 8:54:52 PM Remote Name: 207.136.199.19 Comments Likewise Les. I hope to see everyone at the NSP in Seattle and/or CAPS in Montreal and/or a Speak Easy Symposium in New Jersey. Marty Jezer