nice paper Lieven

From: Gert Reunes Chairman Belgium stutterers
Date: 10/1/99
Time: 3:33:30 AM
Remote Name: 194.78.221.219

Comments

You aren t a hidden stutterer anymore Lieven... 
Best regards, Gert 
I hope I will see you in 2001 (6th
worldcongress for people who stutter)

Re: nice paper Lieven

From: Grommen
Date: 10/4/99
Time: 1:35:24 AM
Remote Name: 212.190.7.211

Comments

Gent will be a delicious place to hold the next international congress; as two of my children are studying at the
local university, I visited it yesterday: I find it one of the most precious treasures of Western Europe.

Re: nice paper Lieven

From: Gert Reunes
Date: 10/4/99
Time: 7:46:42 AM
Remote Name: 194.78.221.20

Comments

Geen interesse om een workshop te geven???



Re: nice paper Lieven

From: Lieven Grommen
Date: 10/16/99
Time: 11:02:03 AM
Remote Name: 212.190.10.215

Comments

Eigenlijk begin ik daar wel goesting in te krijgen. Misschien ook wel om al die mensen van de internet
discussiegroepen eens in levende lijf te ontmoeten. Ja, ik denk er serieus over, Gert.

Covert stuttering

From: Gail Lind, Educ. SLP
Date: 10/5/99
Time: 11:41:22 AM
Remote Name: 204.72.76.99

Comments

In reading about your experiences with covert stuttering, it became apparent that within the recent past, my
mother shared with me that she is (what I now know to be) a covert stutterer. While I was sensitive and
interested, I did not fully appreciate what she was confiding in me, and I was at a loss as to what I could say
or do to help. Given this, what type of support/recommendations would you suggest I give my mother who is
currently 75 years old and still affected by her covert stuttering. She has obviously worked so hard on
covering this over the years, that when I casually mentioned mom's identified difficulties to a sister, she
expressed no understanding or acknowledgement as to what I was talking about. 

Re: Covert stuttering

From: Lieven Grommen
Date: 10/5/99
Time: 11:57:09 AM
Remote Name: 212.190.24.172

Comments

Given the age of your mother what change is there to be expected? As I mentionned in the paper,I am not a
specialist at all in the fiel. So my advice is to consult a psychologist with experience in speech related
problems. On the other hand as your mother intended to express something hidden about her speech
functioning, she must have had the emotional need to do so. Listening and trying to understand will surely be
important to her. Maybe she hoped that you could understand her with your background. Perhaps you shoud
ask for a full story: ask explications and examples. Perhaps this will give her some relief for the hidden pain...
Sincerely,

Situations

From: Barry Howze
Date: 10/7/99
Time: 12:43:30 PM
Remote Name: 165.247.45.68

Comments

I noted with interest the fact that you have no trouble in professional speaking situations where the words
spoken are of great importance but have trouble in trivial situations like placing an order in a bakery. I have
had similar experiences myself. To what do you attribute this seeming paradoxical behavior? I tend to think it
is because, for some reason, I feel more entitled to speak in the serious situations than the trivial ones.
Whatever the felling it must be well below the level of conscious awareness. Barry Howze

Re: Situations

From: Lieven Grommen
Date: 10/8/99
Time: 9:00:05 AM
Remote Name: 212.190.18.105

Comments

It has not always been that easy. It took me years and a lot of work to obtain that confidence in my
professional situation. There seems to be a paralel between the fluency and my my knowledge (in a broad
sense: intellectual and emotional) of the field. I guess when I should go to the baker on a daily basis, there
should be also more fluency.

"Bringing it out"

From: Gina Waggott
Date: 10/8/99
Time: 3:59:27 PM
Remote Name: 148.88.17.28

Comments

Hi Lieven, 

What a great paper! Not only do I like the content, but the way you structured it and made it personal was
excellent too. Being a closet stutterer myself, I have had much contact with people in a similar situation. The
question I am asked most of all is: 'What do you do if you can't/won't "bring the stutter out"'? - i.e. make a
conscious decision to be an 'overt' stutterer? 

I won't go into my own personal experience here, but what are your suggestions to people who ask this
question? What, in your opinion, would be the first steps to take to "full acceptance" and overt stuttering? 

With kind regards, 

-Gina W 

Re: "Bringing it out"

From: Lieven Grommen
Date: 10/9/99
Time: 8:41:58 AM
Remote Name: 212.190.13.157

Comments

Thanks for your kind appreciation. Well, I think the answer to the question is quite simple: you have to be
aware of the problem. Awareness is the first important thing. And second there must be the will to change.
Somebody who's happy in a given situation, doesn't feel the need to change. When a closet stutterer is honest
toward himself, he only can recognise that his stuttering is a permanent handicap. So the third condition is
honesty. Perhaps the last element is a warm audience to feel confortable with the outcoming. Kind greetings.

Thanks

From: Scott A.
Date: 10/14/99
Time: 7:43:44 PM
Remote Name: 134.29.41.9

Comments

I just want to say thanks for your article. It made me think about the fact that I may be a covert stutter. I am 21
years old and have stuttered for most of my life. My stutter, however is pretty mild, so in most cases I try to
hide it. This hasn't always worked though. Most of my friends know that I have a stutter, but for some reason
I still don't like to admit it. In the past, I have only talked to my parents about it. Lately however, I have
opened up a little bit and have talked to my girlfriend. Slowly but surely I'm comming into the open. Thanks
again for your article and GOD bless you with all you do! Peace in CHRIST, Scott

Re: Thanks

From: Lieven Grommen
Date: 10/16/99
Time: 10:54:32 AM
Remote Name: 212.190.10.215

Comments

I believe we live in a wonderfull time: through the expanding possibilities of comunication everybody can find
his way out of darkness. I am glad you are on the way of accepting; it is my strong conviction that the simple
fact of accepting will increase your fluency. Greetings.

New Awarness

From: Jill Wyatt
Date: 10/16/99
Time: 10:29:18 AM
Remote Name: 209.248.37.222

Comments

What a wonderful paper. As a grad student, your paper has given me a new appreciation for the difficulties
faced daily by the covert stutterer. Hopefully I will be able to use this new understanding when working with
fluency clients. Jill Wyatt 

Re: New Awarness

From: Lieven Grommen
Date: 10/16/99
Time: 10:59:04 AM
Remote Name: 212.190.10.215

Comments

I am glad to hear you learned from my writings. As a healthcare worker (MD) myself I' ve learned that each
indivudual has his own unique story. It seems to me you have the right attitude to take care of others. I wish
you a lucky career ! Blessings.

New support group member

From: Bernie Weiner (berniewin@aol.com)
Date: 10/16/99
Time: 1:49:58 PM
Remote Name: 205.188.198.41

Comments

Thanks for your great paper, Lieven. We have a new member of our support group who is a covert stutterer.
She is a master of substitution and using tricks to avoid her blocks. Just coming to her first meeting was a big
step for her. I have steered her to the on-line conference, and I hope she reads your paper. She will know that
she is not unique in hiding her stutter.

A New Understanding

From: Russ Hicks
Date: 10/18/99
Time: 10:11:01 AM
Remote Name: 216.119.161.214

Comments

Lieven, 

Your paper has added immeasurably to my understanding of covert stutterers. Thank you! I hope we can
generate some meaningful converstations on Stutt-L on this topic. 

Thanks again! 

Russ 

Great Paper, Lieven

From: Bob Quesal
Date: 10/19/99
Time: 11:57:09 AM
Remote Name: 143.43.201.99

Comments

Excellent paper! You really do a nice job of explaining the "paradox." I will add your paper to my list of
readings for my graduate stuttering class in the spring. It will provide the students with considerable insight. 

Bob Quesal 

Re: Great Paper, Lieven

From: Lieven Grommen
Date: 10/19/99
Time: 2:38:19 PM
Remote Name: 212.190.5.45

Comments

Thanks Bob, I'v just had a look at your interesting paper, about all kind of prejudices regarding stuttering and
stuttering therapy. It helped me structuring a lot of information I gathered past years reading the messages on
stutt-L. Kind greetings.

Lieven --Wonderful Contribution

From: Steve Hood
Date: 10/22/99
Time: 12:44:46 PM
Remote Name: 199.33.133.50

Comments

GREAT PAPER -- Lieven 

Ever since reading the works of Henry Freund, as well as Earnest Gouglass and Bruce Quarrington back in
mu student days, I have been intrigued and fastinated by the PWS who "interiorizes" the overt and behavioral
aspects of stuttering. Clearly, we need more research in this area. From my own experiences of some thirty
years, I am aware of many "interiorized stutterers" who are unwilling or unable to allow themselves to be
more open, honest and accepting of stuttering. In spite of the pain and suffering, and in spite of the way they
allow themselved to be "handicapped" and "disabled" by stuttering, they often refuse treatment. When they do
enter therapy, they often do so with the hope that therapy will allow them to continue to hide stuttering in a
"better way." 

Since this is the case, we are less likely to see them in the clinic, and less likely to have them participate in
research. 

Many clinicians find it difficult to understand the extremes these people go to in order to interiorize and avoid.
Students find it even more difficult. 

THANK YOU. Thank you for providing this much needed eye-opener. 

Steve Hood

Re: Lieven --Wonderful Contribution

From: Lieven Grommen
Date: 10/23/99
Time: 2:55:46 AM
Remote Name: 212.190.9.49

Comments

Thanks Steve. My paper is my little contribution to the self help community. I have so much learned from
reading your and others postings on the stutt-l discussion groups, that I felt obliged to do something for the
community. Thanks for your commitment.

Thank You

From: Aimee Klemp
Date: 10/22/99
Time: 12:53:42 PM
Remote Name: 207.239.112.18

Comments

Thank you for commenting on this very interesting topic. Your paper reinforced the fact that stuttering is not
just a speech problem, it also encompasses the attitudes and fears that accomany it. As a student of speech
pathology, your paper has taught me to treat each person as an indiviudal and to dig deeper. What I see on the
outside doesn't necessarily tell the whole story. Thanks! 

Re: Thank You

From: Lieven Grommen
Date: 10/23/99
Time: 2:55:17 AM
Remote Name: 212.190.9.49

Comments

I am very glad to have contributed to a better understanding of the stuttering person. Your statement that every
PWS should be viewed as an entirely original problem is crucial. I am convinced you have the right attitude to
become a good SLP. Kindest greetings and lucky carreer !

Covert stuttering student

From: L. Gustafson
Date: 10/22/99
Time: 4:42:28 PM
Remote Name: 209.105.90.81

Comments

How can I best help a student increase his confidence in his abilities (5th grade. He is mildly dysfluent with
phrase repetitions but is severely self-conscious and will not speak in a group situation.

Re: Covert stuttering student

From: Lieven Grommen
Date: 10/23/99
Time: 2:51:42 AM
Remote Name: 212.190.9.49

Comments

You hit the key-point. The big problem is that the hidden PWS first hast to recognize the problem. Secondly
he has to accept it and find the apropriate advisors. I hope this conference and my own paper can help you
find some keys to access him. Perhaps he should read some of the postings... I personaly found participating
the self-help community ( the stuttering discussionlists on the internet: stutt-L etc) most helpfull. Kind
greetings.