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Minnesota State University, Mankato
Minnesota State University, Mankato


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66th MSSA Senate
May 27, 1998 Minutes

Meeting called to order at 4:03 by Speaker Dan Van Every
Roll Call
Senators Present:
Chelsea Dullard 2-0-0, Marie Ntangsi 2-0-0, Chris Elvebak 2-0-0, Abdoul Aziz 2-0-0, Mohammed Rafiquzzaman 2-0-0, Phil Rowan 2-0-0, Chris Boyce 2-0-0, Vicki Edwards-Merton 2-0-0, Joost Dettmeijer 2-0-0, Lucretia Burgess 2-0-0, Kyle Jarvis 2-0-0 Cleo Miller 2-0-0, Francis Klinkner 1-0-1, Matt Harmon 2-0-0, Laura Depuydt 2-0-0, Tonya Knaak 2-0-0, Rachel D. Noah 2-0-0, Nate Prouty 1-0-0
Senators Absent
Rainey Briggs 1-1-0, Brian Opatz 0-2-0, Andy Schuttinga 0-2-0, Bethany Schuttinga 0-2-0, Cindy West 0-2-0, Andres Sudbeck 0-2-0, Soni Penh Lo 1-1-0,
Executive Staff Present
President Jason Kocina 2-0-0, Vice President Sylvia Oelberg 2-0-0,
Executive Staff Absent
Treasurer Jen Hibbard

Quorum Present

Student Forum

Bob Pavlenko - I urge senators to oppose flat rate tuition motion by the senate, "representative government has failed as we know it." This is an ugly precedent.
Christine Benedict - Flat rate tuition discriminates against many students, especially non-traditional students. I have started a petition, it has about 100 signatures and will be sent to the Board of Trustees of Minnesota State. [Action: petition read to the Senate.] Also writing the Governor, local Representatives and Senators.
Kristina England (Women's Studies & English) - absolutely against flat rate tuition, back up petition with a rally.
Rashad Mohammed Sahabats - I wanted to talk about a more moral approach than the other speakers. Appeal to your emotions. Consider the roles of athletes and non-traditional students, Minnesota State has moved into being capitalists instead of educators. The powers that be should not be in the job of rushing us through four years. They should be more concerned with educating us instead.


Dan Cronn-Mills - Presenter
Went through Parliamentary Procedure.
Dr. Sachau - Presenter
Presentation on MSU name change to Minnesota State University. Please see minutes dated May 13, 1998.

Approval of Minutes
The minutes of May 20, 1998 are approved.

Officer Reports

Jason Kocina - President
See written report. Sylvia Oelberg - Vice President
I have two motions regarding flat rate tuition
Vice President Oelberg/Senator Dullard moves the following resolution:

Whereas: The members of the MSSA feel that the Tuition Formula accepted by Minnesota State will be detrimental to a significant portion of the MSU student population. And

Whereas: Students have stated that they would like to see and participate in a public statement concerning this. Therefore, be it

Resolved: That the MSSA Senate fully support and help to facilitate a one day Student Walk Out on June 3, 1998. Be it further

Resolved: That the MSSA Senate and concerned students circulate a petition through the University Community to support
this Walk Out, starting on Thursday May 28, 1998. Be it further,

Resolved: That the MSSA Senate also plan an E-Mail drive to support the student stance.

Senator Dullard - concerned there will be no participation in walk-out.
Vice President Oelberg - Some students think a walk-out may be more effective in the Fall.
Vice President Oelberg - Strongly opposed to flat rate tuition and making a stance is important. Yield to Student Benedict: "I am not in support of a walk-out but I am in support of a rally." "I am still standing in support of a petition drive and would love your help." [Senator Harmon - Point of Information, please read resolved. [Action: resolved read.]]
Vice President Oelberg - Yields to Student England: as a non-traditional student I feel that many others are in support and we need to act now. I feel that we can get support.
Yields to Senator Elvebak: We need to show our disapproval to the local campus and city community, get support there, and then have their help in persuading Minnesota State and the State Legislature. We need to focus on making this a trial period, then Minnesota State can seen it's error and save face. In the short term, we must act. We cannot wait, students are upset now. I have received phone calls, and students are threatening that they are not coming back. "We will not take this, we will not go quietly into that good night."
Student Kristina England - now is better despite finals. In the Fall they will be trying to figure out where they are going.
President Kocina - I rise in opposition to the motion. This is huge. Are you willing to risk the next year on something that may not be successful? The last student walk-out gained us nothing (1996-97) and the relationship with the administration was the worst ever. If this was the 60's we would SHUT THIS SCHOOL DOWN! But we live in the 90's and students are no longer activists. Minnesota State is not going to change their vote. They never have. I doubt the legislature will change anything, they are the ones that are pushing students to get out in four years. They don't give a rip about us either. They have a statute that mandates 60% financial support and they are only supporting at 52%. "I just don't think that a walk out at this time will gain us anything but trouble." People will talk a lot, but they won't come through. It will be like every other day. I want to hear those of you that normally don't speak to give your opinion. Rallies don't and won't work. We are looking at eight months before the legislature can take action. Are you willing to risk it all next week for all of next year? "I think we are handing the students a ball of soap."
Senator Elvebak - Point made Mr. President but students are irate! Let's remind Vice President Trauger and President Rush how representative we can be. This is our lives that they are disrupting.
Senator Dullard - they don't care (faculty), they don't remember who pays their bills. WE cannot expect their support. Students as a whole are late on arrival. The Senate has taken action on this earlier, but the students didn't care until it came into effect. "The fact is that administration doesn't care about us they care about money."
Senator Edwards-Merton - "We, together, can make a difference; or make a mess for the janitor." [Action - the Senator asked that fellow Senators toss M&M candies in the opening showing how together they could make a larger presence.] Senator Klinkner - In the straw poll I voted in favor of this to show that I was disgusted. I want to see this fail, but by a narrow margin. It is important that we show our opposition. I see TV media portraying this in a negative light, which is an agreement with what I think. To Minnesota State and Vice President Trauger for telling us that we (student representatives) don't represent the students I respond, "Bite me, another campaign slogan I used once." I am in favor of a petition drive, and for once am surprised that I didn't think this up.
Senator Jarvis - Students were upset earlier this year about some other issues. I set up a meeting concerning it with real action. No one showed up. No motivation. We have options, but a rally I am not so sure about. "I would be glad to represent 100% of my constituents, but 100% have to be standing with me on this one." "I don't want to see 1996 happen again, look at the potential in this room that we have to fight against the administration." Vote it down.
Senator Aziz (proxy Dustin Mayfield)/Senator Miller (proxy Eric Bakke) - move to amend by substitution:
substitute the word "walk-out" with "rally."
President Kocina/Senator Edwards-Merton - move a five minute caucus. Motion passes.
Senator Jarvis/ Senator Edwards-Merton - move to recess for 20 minutes. Motion passes.
Coordinator Blakley - Much of this body's discussion has raised this question, "are you leaders or are you followers? Some would rather have someone else do it and ride on their coattails."
[Senator Harmon - point of order, reference to the motives of members. Speaker Van Every - point taken.]
[Senator Jarvis - point of order, is this germane? Speaker Van Every - point taken.]
We must do this for the students that want to be here next year if they can afford it.
Senator Elvebak - in favor of the rally. A concentrated voice in one area.
Senator Klinkner/Senator Knaack (proxy Jen Drganc) - Move to end debate on the subsidiary motion.
[Senator Boyce (proxy- Shawn Bakke] - point of parliamentary procedure, is the vote on the main or subsidiary motion.
Speaker Van Every - The subsidiary.
Senator Vicki Edwards-Merton / Vice President Oelberg - request roll call.
Roll Call
Students voting Yes
Chelsea Dullard, Chris Elvebak, Abdoul Aziz, Mohammed Rafizuzzaman, Phil Rowan, Chris Boyce, Kyle Jarvis, Matt Harmon, Laura Depuydt, Tonya Knaak, Rachel D. Noah, Nate Prouty, Vicki Edwards-Merton
Students voting No
Francis Klinkner
Executive Staff voting yes
Vice President Sylvia Oelberg
Executive Staff voting no
President Jason Kocina
Subsidiary motion to change "walk-out" to "rally" passes with a vote of 13-3-1.

President Kocina/ Senator Jarvis - move to postpone the main motion indefinitely.
Senator Elvebak - Point of parliamentary inquiry, is this an automatic roll call vote or does one have to be requested?
Speaker Van Every - This requires a majority vote and is debatable.
President Kocina - This a move to say we are opposing or supporting this motion. Senator Harmon - This is the most appropriate motion the Senate could take. Not certain I can vote for or against the main motion. This is a way for the Senate to abstain. The main motion will not pass and appear that we don't care, but we do. Senator Dullard - I would like to hear from more students, especially a diversity of colleges.
Senator Elvebak - Speaking in opposition. We are here to make these hard decisions. It is not only our prerogative, but it is our duty to make a decision on this.
Coordinator Blakley - The hardest thing in the world to do is make a decision. It is easy when you know everyone will support it. This motion will effect more than just the students in this assembly. Is it fair that we don't want to make a decision because we won't be here next year. This effects 45% of students negatively. [Senator Miller (proxy Eric Bakke) - Point of Order, the Coordinator is questioning the motives of the members. Speaker Van Every - point taken.] Senator Elvebak - Fellow leaders have this debate, should we lead, follow, or get out of the way. Why are we so scared to make a step forward in this? [Senator Harmon - Point of Order, the Senator is questioning the motives of the Senate by asking the gallery if they think we want to do this.
Speaker Van Every - The Senator will be careful not to question motives. President Kocina - Point of Parliamentary Procedure, will the Speaker continue to allow the questioning of the motives of members?
Speaker Van Every - Point of Order, I ask the President not to question the motives of the Speaker. It is the decision of the membership if the Speaker's motives are to be questioned.
President Kocina - Point of Order, the Speaker is not a member of this body. Speaker Van Every - If the member has a concern with the Speaker's ruling he should appeal the decision of the chair.] Yield to gallery.
Student Kristina England - Since I am not a member of the Senate body maybe I should question the motives of the Senate. You were elected to take a stand. Apathy is not acceptable. Student Christina Benidect (Social Studies) - do what is right.
Senator Klinkner - I support this because of the 1996-97 Vice President's year end quote hanging on the Senate office wall. ["If you are not inciting a riot you are not doing your job."] At least this motion will give us direction.
Senator Jarvis - when I asked my most loyal constituents what they thought about a rally, they said no, students will not take the time. If this motion to postpone doesn't pass I will vote down the main motion because I know the majority of McElroy will not be out there. [Senator Dullard - Point of Order, is this germane. Speaker Van Every - yes.] When I see my intoxicated constituents tonight at the night owl desk and tell them I voted down a rally they will say "hmmm." and stumble off.
Vice President Oelberg - talk to your students, they want a decision.
Senator Rowan - Voting the motion down will not mean that we are not taking a stand. Let's make changes to the main motion as we need to.
Senator Rafiquizzman (proxy Matt Anderson) - Point of Parliamentary Procedure, could the speaker reread the motion. [Action taken.] Why can't we take action to support and facilitate. I will vote this down.
Senator Aziz (proxy Dustin Mayfield) - yield to Student Bob Pavlenko: no matter what this body does the students will be active. This body already has a bad aura. [Senator Knaack (proxy Jen Drganc) - Point of Order; questioning the motives of the body.
Speaker Van Every - Point not taken.
Bob Pavlenko-I encourage my representatives to make a decision today.
Senator Boyce (proxy Shawn Bakke) - Inaction is not misrepresenting the students or we would be here making decisions on everything everyday.
Speaker Van Every - See no objection an immediate vote on the motion to postpone indefinitely. Motion to postpone fails.
President Kocina - Will it be the job of the Speaker to organize the rally? Speaker Van Every - It is the Speaker's job to organize the Senate e-mail and petition drive but not facilitate a rally.
Senator Noah - This is a rally, that is not a protest. The majority student election party that was elected opposes banded tuition. What is the problem?
Senator Dullard/ Senator Klinkner - move to end debate on the main motion. Motion to end debate fails (6-8).
President Kocina - just because one opposes a rally doesn't mean they oppose the concept. I really mean this, "are you willing to give it all up . . . on something we cannot change."
Senator Harmon - The passing of a motion like this could be perceived by the administration as a protest and thus giving up every other issue on the platform. We will lose credibility.
Senator Jarvis - "nothing is stopping you from putting your title behind something you believe in." I hate banded tuition with a passion, just because I don't support a rally doesn't change that.
Senator Rowan / Vice President Oelberg - move to amend by substitution

Whereas: The members of the MSSA feel that the Tuition Formula accepted by Minnesota State will be detrimental to a significant portion of the MSU student population. And

Whereas: Students have stated that they would like to see and participate in a public statement concerning this. Therefore, be it

Whereas: Students have been putting forth effort without the MSSA
Senate solicitation

Resolved: That the MSSA Senate work with those concerned students
in circulating a petition throughout the MSU community
and be it further

Resolved: That the MSSA Senate also plan an E-Mail drive to
support the student stance.

The amendment by substitution is accepted without objection from the body.
Senator Rowan - The rally motion was made in haste, this motion will allow us to extract ourselves from that. This still takes action.
President Kocina - After three hours I think we have come up with a palatable compromise. I encourage the passing of this resolution.
Senator Harmon - My biggest problem with the previous main motion was the rally. This is a motion I think I can support.
Vice President Oelberg - Thanks to Senator Rowan.
Senator Jarvis - This is best for the student body.
Without objection the Senate took an immediate vote.
The main motion amended by substitution passes.

Whereas: The members of the MSSA feel that the Tuition Formula accepted by Minnesota State will be detrimental to a significant portion of the MSU student population. And

Whereas: Students have stated that they would like to see and participate in a public statement concerning this. Therefore, be it

Whereas: Students have been putting forth effort without the MSSA
Senate solicitation

Resolved: That the MSSA Senate work with those concerned students
in circulating a petition throughout the MSU community
and be it further

Resolved: That the MSSA Senate also plan an E-Mail drive to
support the student stance.

Dan Van Every - Speaker
Speaker Dan Van Every passes the gavel to Vice President Sylvia Oelberg.
Senators please make meeting within a fortnight with the Speaker.
Suggested of a Parliamentarian: can not make points of order, will choose if a rules book will be kept, and does research.
Senator Klinkner-Point of Inquiry-How will the Seaker create this postion?
Vice President Oelberg-He can present it before the Senate as a motion.
Senator Harmon - point of order, the Speaker cannot make motions.
Vice President Oelberg - Point not well taken.
Senator Harmon/Senator Klinkner - Move to appeal the decision of the chair. Motion passes. Leaving the speaker not able to make motions.
Speaker Van Every - After disorganization last week the following ruling is established.

Speaker Ruling #20
Announcements are Speaker's time and motions out of announcements are out of order. (As per Article IV, sec. 3 of the MSSA Constitution, the Speaker is the chief administrative officer of the Senate and sets the agenda. Thus, under this authority the Speaker holds the right to declare announcements as time reserved for unofficial business, during which time the Speaker yields the floor for purposes other than motions or official business

Staff Reports

Kyle Jarvis - MSUSA Campus Representative
Yield to MSUSA State Chair Francis Klinkner - MSU is having problems merging flat rate tuition with the MSUSA fee. They may over charge and put the extra in the reserve. Is this acceptable?
Jarvis - after hard work I have obtained the tape from the Minnesota State meeting in which Vice President Dean Trauger participated.

Allison McGee - Campus Coordinator
Eliminate Hate Day had needs, could have used more Senate involvement. More to come.

Communications Board Elections
President Kocina/Senator Harmon - move to postpone.
Passes without objection.

Senator Reports

Kyle Jarvis - McElroy Senator
Plays tape of Minnesota State Board of Trustees meeting in which Vice President Dean Trauger and President Rush attended to push tuition banding.
The tape played Vice President Trauger saying ". . . working with student senates, which are limited representation of the overall student body." "If we went with what students think we wouldn't have a lot of things such as semesters. Senator Jarvis (College of Education)/Senator Elvebak (McElroy)moves the following resolution:

Whereas: Vice President for Fiscal Affairs H. Dean Trauger stated on May 20, 1998 at the Minnesota State Board of Trustees meeting, ". .working with students which are limited representation of the overall student body," and
Whereas: Minnesota State policy states in Chapter 2, Section 1, Part 3, ". .The College or University president shall recognize the student government as the official representative of students . . . ;" and
Whereas: Stated in the Constitution of the MSSA in Article 1, Section 1, "The legislative and administrative authority of MSSA shall be vested in its Senate;" therefore be it
Resolved: That the MSSA Senate take a vote of No Confidence in the Mankato State University Vice President for Fiscal Affairs, H. Dean Trauger.

Senator Harmon/Senator Miller (proxy Eric Bakke) - move that
the motion to postpone is to be placed under Old Business and for Old Business to immediately follow Student Forum on the agenda.
President Kocina - Point of Inquiry-is it the Speaker's desecration to change the agenda?
Speaker- If the President accepts this as a Friendly amendment then the Speaker
will follow the consensus of the body.
Amendment accepted.

Senator Edwards-Merton - we already know what he is thinking of us, why would we invite him to a "limited represented meeting." Yield to Senator Dullard, he doesn't care about us, why should we care about him.
Senator Jarvis - I believe that the Senate and the students have intentionally been played by the administration. What is not fair is that the Minnesota State Board got to see a proposal that we never saw, and we saw other proposals. Are we limited in our representation because only 12% or 1300+ students voted in our election. According to Minnesota State policy, the administration has no choice but to see us as the representatives. President Rush signed the MSSA constitution which makes us the legislative and administrative body of the MSSA.
President Kocina/Senator Miller (proxy Eric Bakke) - move to postpone for one week.
President Kocina - I want to confront him on his voice on tape. We should do this in the light of day.
Coordinator McGee - what happens if he doesn't show up. I am disgusted. Faculty and staff won't believe this. We should extend the invitation not only to him but also to the campus community and his co-workers.
Senator Dullard - He has been here.
Senator Jarvis - [Action: plays Trauger's words on the tape.]
Senator Miller (proxy Eric Bakke) - point of order, material cannot be read to the body without the body's consent. Is this the same?
Speaker Van Every - He has asked and received consent for this segment of tape during his report.
Senator Jarvis - Question, has Trauger been invited?
President Kocina - No.
Senator Jarvis - I am tired of this body being mis-treated and stepped on. President Kocina - Let him have a fair hearing. I would like to hear his comments. I want to hear him respond. He didn't do what was right, but we do! We need to take our time. "Dean Trauger is not going anywhere, the university is not going anywhere, it might change its name, but its not going anywhere." A vote of no confidence is a very strong statement. What do we want out of this? We need to think about that. "We need to say, we have no confidence because of X, Y, Z. We need to tell him how that can be rectified."
Senator Miller (proxy Eric Bakke) - "I am not Cleo Miller." I really did not want any part of this, I try to keep my commitments however. I will be voting yes because Senator Miller should be here for this vote and he should be able to tell us what his constituents think.
Senator Elvebak - Prudent politicians wait.
Senator Dullard/Senator Rafiquizzman (proxy Matt Anderson)- move to end debate. Motion to end debate on the motion to postpone fails.
Senator Harmon/Senator Elvebak - Move to adjourn.
President Kocina - I believe we will lose quorum.
Senator Dullard - My report is two minutes long.
Senator Jarvis - I am disappointed.
Senator Miller (proxy Eric Bakke)/Senator Jarvis - request a roll call vote.
Roll Call
Senators voting yes
Chelsea Dullard, Abdoul Aziz, Mohammed Rafizuzzaman, Phil Rowan, Chris Boyce, Vicki Edwards-Merton, Kyle Jarvis, Cleo Miller, Francis Klinkner, Matt Harmon, Laura Depuydt, Rachel D. Noah
Senators voting no
Chris Elvebak, Tonya Knaak
Executive Staff Voting Yes
President Jason Kocina
Vice President Sylvia Oelberg
Motion to adjourn fails.

Senator Aziz (proxy Coordinator McGee) - The proxy must leave due to a death in the family.
Speaker Dan Van Every - I hereby recognize the vacancy in the seat of College of Allied Health and Nursing.
Senator Knaack (proxy Jen Drganc)/Vice President Oelberg move to end debate. The motion passes.
Roll Call vote Senator Jarvis/Proxy Bakke
Roll Call
Senators voting yes
Chris Elvebak, Abdoul Aziz, Chris Boyce, Francis Klinkner, Tonya Knaak, Rachel Noah
Senators voting no
Chelsea Dullard, Mohammed Rafizuzzaman, Phil Rowan, Vicki-Edwards-Merton, Kyle Jarvis, Cleo Miller-proxy Eric Bakke, Matt Harmon, Laura Depuydt
Executive Staff voting no
Vice President Sylvia Oelberg
Executive Staff abstaining
President Kocina

The motion to postpone for one week, as amended, passes. [Note Senator Francis Klinkner cast no vote. Senator Kyle Jarvis voted no.]

Senator Dullard - Meet with Dr. Hustoles on faculty evaluations. He was somewhat hesitant. The Senator noted that it would help students seeking professors that they could better learn with. Dr. Hustoles stated that he offered evaluations in his classes, but also stated that he doesn't take their comments about change into effect.
Senator Francis Klinkner - quorum call.
Speaker Van Every - quorum is not present (10:31 p.m.). Moving to announcements is in order.]

New Business

President Kocina - "touch the wall when you come in and leave your emotions
Coordinator Blakley - see me for proposed ARAMark prices.
Senator Jarvis - the Trauger tapes will be made available to everyone directly through me.

Roll call taken as per Operating Procedures.

Roll Call
Senators Present
Chelsea Dullard, Mohammed Rafizuzzaman, Phil Rowan, Chris Boyce, Vicki Edwards-Merton, Kyle Jarvis, Cleo Miller proxy Eric Bakke, Francis Klinkner,
Laura Depuydt
Senators Absent
Rainey Briggs, Marie Ntagsi, Brian Opatz, Chris Elvebak, Andy Schuttinga, Bethany Schuttinga, Abdoul Aziz, Cindy West, Lucretia Burgess, Andres Sudbeck, Matt Harmon, Tonya Knaak, Soni Penh Lo, Nate Prouty

The Speaker adjourned the meeting at 10:38 p.m.